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QUESTION
If the plans for the body construction we to be auctioned how much would they fetch at auction if they were to be sold, how many blue prints are left?
Catlin
Alberta
Thousands of blueprints were created. I have no idea what they would fetch but I suspect it would not be very much unless some collector was truly interested in them.
Sir, a while back the missing third Iroquois (of the three ordered saved in the Government documents) turned up in England. While some may say this is not surprising, what else would this discovery lead us to believe may still be in England.
Alex
Dundas
In fact, there is documentation which clearly shows one of the 14 engines went to Bristol in England. That is the one that has turned up. The documents doesn't reveal much else other than technical documentation. For a while there was talk that one or two Arrows might be sent there. Is that where 202 is? I don't think it is and it does not appear 202 exists eventhough it does not show up in any of the destruction photos.
What was the deal with the United States wanting to buy The Avro Arrow before it got cancelled?
Briana
Barrie
There was no such deal. The US always expressed an interest and there were several high ranking Generals who wanted to have it, like General D.C. Putt but everything was squashed by the Secretary of the Air Force and the Secretary of State John Foster Dulles. Full details are in Storms.
How was the Canadian military and military policy affected by the cancellation of the Arrow? How has the Canadian military been affected or influenced by the US after purchasing the Bomarc missiles as a replacement for the Arrow?
Josh
These are complex questions that require considerable study. I am not so sure that policy was affected in so far as we just ended up purchasing American aircraft instead. Our military industry, potential civilian product spin-off and economy was affected. We purchased the Bomarc as part of a continental defense system for the US. We are now in the midst of a similar debate concerning the Northern Command the US is establishing. We have quite often been influenced by the US but then the US is our greatest ally. It makes sense that we work together with them. It is unfortunate though that the US did not see and our politicians did not push the Arrow as our contribution to continental defense. Some American officials did but not those in a position to make and take decisions.
What was the net weapons payload, in lbs or kilograms, of the Arrow Mk. 2, when loaded with full internal fuel? ( The figures I've found indicate variously 21,613 lbs or 21,270 lbs total internal fuel )
Sandy
One of my technical brochures contains the following info
I am not clear on your question and numbers. Total fuel capacity I have as 2,897 Imperial Gallons with total useable fuel as 2508 Imperial gallons. I don't have the weights of the falcon missiles or sparrows. Now in terms of aircraft weight I have
Take-off weight with 17,270 lb fuel is 62, 431 lb
Max take-off gross weight 68,847 lb
Operational weight empty 45, 161lb
Combat weight 53, 796 lb
Normal design landing gross weight as per Air 7-4 47,743 lb
I suspect these numbers would have changed as Arrow 2 was tested. The operational aircraft was designated as the 21st to come off the line so things would have changed by then.
How much original data would be required to be able to rebuild one functioning Avro Arrow? Do we have access to said information, how much would it approximately cost to do such a operation. Also, if we could rebuild one original, would that make it easier to make a 'updated' version of the Arrow?
Nathan
Calgary
These are all good questions but I urge you to read my article on exactly this topic, on this web site. The original data is now useless because of the different materials used in today's aircraft designs. Everything would need to be recalculated and retested because due to different weights, structural stresses, thermal properties etc for these new materials. The cost would be astronomical. You final product might have the same outline as the Arrow but it would not be an Arrow in my opinion.
What exactlly happened to that arrow on death row with the CF-100 in front? Is there still an arrow out there somewhere?
Tyler
Taber
None of the "destruction photos" show all 5 Arrows being destroyed. As I reported in Storms, there was some evidence that one had been taken apart in the hangar; but is that really the solution to the mystery? I tend to doubt there is one out there but that is purely my own speculation.
Is there any truth to the story of the Russians basing their Mig-25 Foxbat on the Arrow? The Foxbat does look different, however it has many operational similarities.
Shaun
Kamloops
This is a good question and all I can do is stick to the facts. It is a fact that some Arrow related information was provided to the Soviets by a mole. Whether or not that information was used or could be used in any way is not known for certain.
I have studied the avro-car for years and my original interest started when I heard that German engineers that had worked on sucessfull flying discs at the Wars end came over to Canada along with the USA, how is it that Germans were able to fly prototypes in Germany then come over here and only get a "hovercraft" off the ground. remember the first "sightings" of flying saucers were close to the Canadian border by Kenneth Arnald, actually they were delta shaped aircraft, perhaps did the Avro co. produce something far more superior??
Michael
California
I have not seen any hard evidence that the Germans or Avro were successful though many stories persist. Some of my friends in Europe agree. Having said that, rumors continue that while the avrocar was being built, the US was secretly building something else that allegedly worked. You may wish to check out the 26 July 2000 Jane's Defence Weekly for a story on a saucer vehicle based on the theory of elctrogravitics. Did it actually fly?
I have an article printed in may 10 1959 the American weekly, about flying saucers and nylon tanks. avro designed it for the U S Air Force the article states but funding was cut and the before the prototype was built. what ever happened to this project? is it possible some of the saucer sightings could be from this engineering design effort? also in the same article, it mentions a shoulder fired anti aircraft missles. (what is used today in Afganistan) and also talks about fuel cells for enegry to reduce oil dependence. this was 1959, fuel cells still have not made it into cars and trucks yet 43yrs. later. can you provide information on any of these?
Jim
Toronto
On the flying saucer, pleasse see my article on the Avrocar. All the details are there. I have heard of some of these other developments but have no information on them. After the Arrow cancellation, A.V. Roe tried getting in to a number of projects. They had a design concept for a monorail and had even put in a bid to develop a hydrofoil. They were also trying their hand at aluminum luxury boats as well as vending machines. They purchased a number of other companies and had a special products division. It is possible the products you mentioned were attempted there but never had a chance to develop properly before A.V. Roe shut down for good.
I understand that all blueprints to the avro arrow were destroyed (officially). Unofficially they still exist. On the plans it is stamped "Top Secret". Can you still get arrested and charged with some Federal law for possessing these blue prints?
Bill
Malton
As I understand it, there is no longer a problem of being charged, for possessing Arrow blueprints stamped Top Secret or otherwise. These blueprints are now well out of date. If you still have a concern, you can always contact the Directorate of History at DND in Ottawa. With documents, the situation is a little different in that if these documents contain information pertaining to another country, eventhough they are so old, they should still be presented for proper declassification according to our access to information act.
WHY is the avro still being debated??? thanks
Jill
Wiarton
The Arrow is still being debated because it affected so many people and impacted all our lives over the last 40 years. It is being debated because of the way the decision was taken, with little or no explanation to Canadians. It is being debated because of all the rumors that sprang up about poor engineering, political interference, soviet moles etc. It is still being debated because there remains more truth to be told. It is still being debated because those who were maligned unnecessarily over the years will not forget. It is still being debated because the historians have only partially admitted they have been wrong over all these years. (Some of them finally conceded the Arrow was technically superior but they still erroneously claim it was costing too much.) There are many more reasons than this.

  Palmiro Campagna is an Engineer with the Department of National Defence. He has been researching the Arrow story since the early eighties and has been responsible for the declassification of many of the Arrow files thought to have been destroyed back in 1959. His books are based on those files. He is also the author of The UFO Files: The Canadian Connection Exposed, which has a detailed chapter on the Avrocar, Avro's flying saucer for the USAF/US ARMY.

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